Have we become a middle-class church?

Clive has been a Counties Evangelist for 20 years. He runs Reflect Community Church in Ely, Cardiff, with his wife Ruth, which is one of the biggest council estates in Europe.

Clive Cornish

Clive is famous for carrying his wooden cross around towns and cities in Britain and other parts of the world - including the Holy Land.

He isn’t a man to mince his words. Within the first ten minutes of our interview, he’s told me that he was in prison for three and a half years and was sexually abused. He also candidly admits:

Reflect Community Church

“Reflect Community Church really is more like a hospital than a middle-class church. In fact, I said to God recently: ‘Lord, please give us some new normal people,’ and He said: ‘Look at yourself.’ I laughed and said: ‘Fair play’.” 

Clive admits that the catchment area doesn’t really lend itself to the kind of church he envisaged at the start.

“People don’t want to move to Ely, it’s like the Bronx of Cardiff. It’s a brilliant place to live but it’s also got a lot of baggage from the past that’s been held onto.

 “Before we set up Reflect, I’d been to three different churches that were all about themselves. They weren’t looking after the community. They were looking after those who were already in the church. So, I knew that God wanted a church in Ely that was going to look after the community, as well as taking care of its own people.”

 “But the people who started coming were people with problems like schizophrenia, those with great needs.”

Lynn and Tony

Clive and his wife Fiona also found there was a lot of distrust where churches were concerned so they are slowly trying to win people around on the estate. Just after Christmas in 2021, a couple called Lynn and Tony came to Reflect, when they were given a hamper by the church. Lynn cried and said: “In our thirty years of marriage nobody has ever given us anything for free”.

“However, they only agreed to come to church if they could bring their Shih Tzu dog, Sandy, who Lynn carries everywhere and is like one of their family - so Clive agreed.

In the meantime, Reflect was preparing to have the church’s monthly Communion and so Clive explained to newcomers what Communion means to Christians, how important it is to believers, and what the bread and wine represent.

On the Sunday of Communion, Lynn came up to the front with Sandy and returned to her seat where she proceeded to give the bread and the cup to Sandy to lick out the juice.

Clive says: “I was flabbergasted. I couldn’t believe it.  And I could see another couple watching who weren’t looking very happy at all. So, I thought that I was going to have to say something, but I didn’t want to hurt their feelings as Sandy is obviously very precious to them”. 

Before the next Communion, Clive approached Lynn and explained that some Christians might get offended if she gave Sandy the bread and wine because it is so important to them. So, Clive told her he had wrapped a treat up and put it on the Communion table for Sandy, and Lynn could have Communion if she felt she knew Jesus.

“You could see the joy in her face when I said that, and she took the treat at the next Communion.”

 The following week was Sandy’s birthday and Lynn told Clive she was bringing cake and presents for the kids to give him, as they all love him.

Clive adds: “So, there I am at the front of the church with Sandy in my arms singing ‘Happy Birthday’ and then I read out a birthday card. The cake had eight candles on it. You couldn’t make it up.

“But there was one guy whose face was like stone. So, when I prayed, I said: ‘Lord we are meeting people where they are’. And I saw the realization dawn on this guy’s face that this is what we should be about.

“It’s interesting that we want people to be how we are. We want people to meet us where we are. And they can’t do that. Life is difficult enough. And we want to give them a book of rules and say: ‘This is how we do it here and if you can’t be how we are, then don’t come.’

 “But the reality is we should be saying: ‘No, we will meet you where you are, and we will love you where you are unconditionally. Just come. And they do. 

 “Last week Lynn was out there making the coffees and bringing people in. That’s a huge, massive step for her, to feel that she belongs.”

Reflect Church

Clive then cites the story of the woman at the well and how Jesus spoke to her. “That story really moves me. He told her, her sin; but she never felt condemned, unwanted or rejected by it. In fact, she went and told everybody what had happened. Why can’t we be like that? And do the same.”

Clive also tells the story of Gareth who ‘loves his drink’ and attends Reflect. He told Clive one week that he might not be there on Sunday morning because he occasionally goes out singing with a choir on a Saturday night and they get very drunk, so he would be too hungover. Clive adds:

“But on the many Sundays he is here, his arms are in the air, he is worshiping God. He obviously loves the Lord.

“At Christmas time, I was singing Cliff Richard’s ‘Mistletoe and Wine’ and Gareth had obviously had a few. So, he ran up the aisle and got on the stage and was swaying back and forth, singing this song.

 “It is so easy to start judging people like this when we don’t know where they are. But we must accept that God and the Holy Spirit are going to convict them as we love them unconditionally.”

When it comes to churches changing their approach to how they welcome people who lead lifestyles we don’t agree with, who may make us feel uncomfortable or even judgmental, Clive admits it can be hard, but he says we all must start with simply being honest about the people we really are:

“If you’ve been sexually abused like I have, you are damaged. If you have been beaten, you are damaged. All of us our damaged but people refuse to be who they are. And we really need to get to that place where we can be who we are, faults and all, to not be ashamed of who we are, be open about what has taken place in our lives – to be authentic with one another. That’s when God can really start to work amongst us.”